Leaving Children Behind
We had a debate today in Advanced Placement Government about how people are treated in schools. At Craig High School and I think for many other schools kids that are able to scam the system and be labeled as a problem child can get away with a lot more. While the Janesville School District expells average students for possessing drugs, they let students that are labeled as E.D. get away with telling a teacher to "F&*K Off" or even possessing drugs at school. I understand that sometimes these people can't control what they're doing, however I feel that they are few and far between. Most students I do believe can control what they are doing and should be held to a higher standard. With school districts issuing "get tough/no tolerance" policies on issues like weapons and drugs I think they need to step up to the plate and deliver in terms of equality. They need to get tough on the kids they let slip through the cracks and punish them like they would other students. Many of these kids I feel know they can get away with it, so they do. If they know they can't away with it, they're not going to try it.
That's my view, what's yours?
That's my view, what's yours?
13 Comments:
At November 15, 2004 7:55 PM , Kirk said...
I fully Support Jeramey's view on these issues Although I do think that we should live by the constitution that all men are created equal not "well he's ED just let him off he probably dosent know no better but that guy over there (not ed) he should know better were gonna suspend him. Thats not fair why should one person beable to get away with a crime while one gets charged.
I also think that the school district expelling kids for haveing drugs is taking it a little two far why not just suspend them for a week and mandate that they take a AODA class. i could see like a 3rd offense or something not a first though
At November 15, 2004 9:07 PM , Sean Dulin said...
They can't just suspend you because they have a no tolerance policy. No tolerance means no three strikes, it means no second chances. They have a responsibility to provide students with a safe, productive, learning enviroment. While the drugs may not bother anybody sitting in a locker, you can't let it go because along with that come people who deal, and people that will fight "turf wars" over the stuff. You can't bring that atomosphere into a classroom. I also think it is not right that some people can get away with inexcusable behavior just because they are labeled a certain way. How will these children know what is right and what is wrong if we do not show them .
At November 16, 2004 10:34 AM , Anonymous said...
Dan again
You should have been there for the discussion in our class last year man. You will find that the best part of that class is when you discuss stuff.
At November 16, 2004 2:54 PM , Jeramey said...
Yes debating in AP Gov is the best (form of class).
At November 16, 2004 4:20 PM , Kirk said...
what are the qualifications you must posses to be in AP Gov? It sounds interesting! I'll be a Junior next year.
At November 16, 2004 8:39 PM , Steven said...
Well, an administrators' job is to make sure every kid gets a fair chance at the an education. If the kids are disadvantaged, it might take more leniency to ensure them their rightful education.
Think of it this way. You have already have one obedient dog, and you get a second, ill-trained dog from owners who didn't take care of it. Are you going to immediately demand the same from the new dog as you have from your well-trained dog all along? No, but it doesn't mean you tolerate disobedient behavior from your already trained dog, either.
In most situations, tolerance of bad behavior from disadvantaged students doesn't infringe on non-disadvantaged students' right to a shot at an education, nor does it ruin the quality of that education, so I don't really see a problem with disadvantaged kids being punished more gently.
Remember, the kids in SWS come from difficult homes or from no homes. School and social services are raising many of them. Without the guidance of parents, these programs are all these kids have to get them ready to be good members of society. Sending homeless and otherwise disadvantaged kids out of school straight into the work force doesn't make things better for anyone.
(I don't really like a dog analogy, either. We have a greater ability to think about consequences than dogs, I know. At least I got rid of the prison analogy.)
At November 16, 2004 8:57 PM , Steven said...
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
At November 18, 2004 1:46 AM , Jeramey said...
You have many good points. I'll attempt to address as many of them as my short term memory can hold. My concern is that their presence in it's current location is actually strongly affecting my education. The rationale often given is that you learn to walk in someone else's shoes, however this isn't happening. What is happening right now and making this issue such a hot issue for so many people is they're crowding up the 200/Sophomore hall intersection. From that position of just standing in the middle of it, intentionally, they fight with each other. This often results in screaming matches where teachers/liason officers just stand and watch. Do they do a thing to stop it? No.
None of this hallway annoyance gets stopped. They need to move literally 20 feet down to get into a wide open area, but they choose to make my and many others lives miserable by standing in the middle of the intersection. Now I don't go through there just once, I go through it 5 times a day. Occasionally a teacher will stand out there and just watch them, and they move, sometimes. I have complained to the teachers in the surrounding classrooms about this, they all agree it's a problem, but none of them want to do anything about it. The school is not doing their job.
Everyday on my way to advisory I am forced to hear cuss-filled trash talk which often results in pushing and shoving, only to be broken up by a teacher. What happens to these studnets? Nothing, they get told to stop. If I were to try that in front of a classroom I would for sure be in trouble.
The problem we're really having which is bringing everyone's quality of education down, their's included, is that our teachers/administrators are/act afraid of these kids. These kids aren't tough. Instead of an actual set standard of rules the teachers seem to enforce things only when they reach a boiling point, and then give up shortly after. Consistent enforcement of the same rules that are created for the intent of making it a better place for everyone is what is going to make the difference.
You are completely right in that kicking them out will not result in anything being any better. However, I do think we need to do many things inside of Craig to make it a healthier situation.
At November 18, 2004 8:51 PM , Steven said...
I walk the same halls, and hall congestion is bad. Some disrespectful kids do make it worse. I honestly don't think that is the problem, though. We've got 500 more kids in our school than the number it was built for.
I really don't think these bad kids are getting treatment you wouldn't, at least with the examples you gave. Some random teacher who sees you pushing and shoving and swearing and picking small fights is going to do the same to you as they do to other kids.
What you said in your original post about some kids getting easier treatment for drug possession at school and similar things, that I can see happening. Once an administrator is involved, they have your files to look at, they have time to think, and they probably know a bit about you. They might treat some kids who need it with extra tolerance, but my original comment explained why that's okay.
I have one other quick question. Does hallway annoyance really hurt the quality of your education? It's annoying, does it affect your learning? How so?
At November 18, 2004 9:05 PM , Jeramey said...
I do feel it affects my education because either I or someone else in my class will spend the first five minutes of that class complaining about how hard it was just to get to it. The only intersection I have a problem with is the Sophomore/200 hall one. The Junior/200 hall one I understand being crowded because there is more people needing to go through it (central location), but it works fine because no one stands still.
I see your thinking with kids being punished more gently, however I think we do too much of it. I think they are now in a position where they very much so no how to play the system. I have no problem with kids that don't understand/aren't able to understand the rules breaking them and getting an easy off punishment. That's not what I see though, I see kids playing the system, on a daily basis. It happens everyday. I'm fortunate/unfortunate enough to be part of a microcosm of it at the Boys & Girls Club, kids play the staff members they know won't punish them. The minute one of the tougher staff members walks into the room, they're very well behaved. As educators/administrators we need to improve on our rules for those who are capable of following them and know them.
Thanks for the debate on the subject, it's helped me to really think about the issue and what I have a problem with. You have swayed my opinion.
At November 18, 2004 9:40 PM , Steven said...
Likewise, I see your point, too. Maybe I should get meself one of these "Web-logs."
At November 20, 2004 12:04 PM , Kirk said...
i really do think that the sophmore/200 hall area hall crowdense is a problem because i travel through it about 9 times a day and sometimes its so packed its taken me 2 minuets to get through going either direction towards the the music/drama dept or headed towards the 300 / 500 hall area ive been late for many classes maybe its just me. I think we need stop lights one direction goes at a time and if you disobey you get detention that way theres no intermixing as for the fights i think that we could have a policy that makes it a rule that you must keep moving. i see more yelling matches than anything else although i have seen some pretty die hard fights mostly between a black and a white person (no offence) but if they can keep the hall moving that mean s no times to exchange words which means a lesser chance of a fight happening although Jeramey and Steven the teachers that work sophmore hall do try prevent fights and break them up when they start altough im with you guys when saying that the intersectin of sophomore/200 hall is a definite traffic problem.
At November 20, 2004 12:06 PM , Kirk said...
oh yah Plus the BO that is produced there i can do without that.
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